DIP74 - where is at?

[deadalnix via Digitalmars-d]

On Monday, 12 October 2015 at 07:44:47 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu 
wrote:
> Instead of assuming my purpose here is to pull tricks on you 
> and manipulate the dialog politically, it's more productive to 
> just stick to the technical discussion. I only started the 
> dialog to get more informed about technical things.
>

I'm not assuming this. I'm fairly confident that you have the 
best intention for D in mind rather than winning internet debate 
points. So do I.

Still you are pulling the above mentioned trick. i don't think 
you did it on purpose. I think you did it because you are 
convinced that DIP25 is great, in fact so convinced that you take 
thing for granted that aren't.

It is a natural tendency we all have to lower the standard of 
evidence we require when we are already convinced. You, me, 
everybody.

>> I don't think grepping for return will have a good noise to 
>> signal
>> ratio.
>
> Sorry, I meant to git grep for "return ref".
>

So I did. I found 2 uses of return ref in current master that 
aren't in unitests. These are both related to unicode decoding. 
These are legit use of DIP25, and I recognize their value.

Still I don't think this is valuable enough to have its own 
syntax. I also, on the other hand presented cases of things that 
people thought could be done with DIP25, but ended up to be 
either not possible or to have a disappointingly low complexity 
to added value ratio.

I can agree on something: DIP25 is the right direction. But it is 
too little to pay for itself and I haven't seen anything here 
that would suggest otherwize.

>> You also mentioned several time that you have good evidence 
>> that
>> DIP25 rox. Yet, every time you post that without any evidence, 
>> I'm a bit
>> more convinced that none exists.
>
> The motivation is in the document and follows many discussions 
> derived from it. It's all about functions and particularly 
> member functions returning up references to data safely.
>
> Amaury, you and Timon are probably the most competent PL 
> theorists in this forum. He did great work: found real problems 
> with DIP25 that need to be looked at. In that light, spending 
> time protesting and yelling figuratively at people is a 
> distinctly unproductive way to spend your time as a very 
> talented contributor. Do great work. It will be recognized. 
> Don't point me at your past posts. They are not great work and 
> you know it. Don't point me at those related DIPs. They are not 
> great work and you know it. Don't find reasons to not do great 
> work because it'll be wasted on my ego. Do great work and you 
> will prevail.
>
> This tone of discussion has carried its course. I'm done 
> arguing so if you want to continue arguing, great - last word 
> is yours. In the recent times I've done my best to reduce my 
> participation to unproductive discussions in forums, and the 
> added perspective and time for real work have been very 
> valuable. I suggest everyone to try it.
>

Ok, I'll write a DIP.