Researcher question – what's the point of semicolons and curly braces?

[Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d]

On Tuesday, 3 May 2016 at 03:48:09 UTC, Joe Duarte wrote:
> Would it be difficult to compile the clean version?

You realize your bias is showing very strongly in the wording of 
this question, right? I don't agree the naked version is clean at 
all.

ohimsorryletswritemorecleanlywithoutanyofthatobnoxiouspunctuationnoiseitisalluselessanywaysurelyyoucanstillmakesenseofthisafterallthereareonlysomanywordsintheenglishlanguageandknowinghwatdoesanddoesntmakesenseincontextmeansyoucansurelyparsethisrightout

oh i know you will say thats not a fair comparison it is the 
punctuation you dislike not the spacing though really the same 
principle applies actually while the punctuation does have 
meaning ill concede you can nevertheless parse it without 
although you might then want other rules

see in a lot of those languages they redefine things like lines 
to serve the same role as the punctuation

so like instead of ending expressions in punctuation

they end them with a new line instead

meaning you must hit enter at the point that d would allow you to 
use the semicolon

ditto for indentation

like sure this is readable

but it just bothers me to use as a matter of course

it can even become

~hideous~

crap i cant even use ~ wtf this style of writing sucks it just 
isnt very expressive nor artistic

* * *

Personally, I sometimes do like writing in all lower case without 
punctuation, but I do so as a style choice; it tends to be my way 
of expressing in text that I'm not being entirely serious, in 
contrast to ordinarily formatted text.

Code is the same thing - I will use different styles for 
different situations.

It isn't a terribly difficult technical problem to define a 
programming language to have a different syntax. You can parse 
them without that much trouble.

But the syntax isn't really there for the compiler's benefit 
(though there are benefits there, just like asking the user to 
confirm their email address, getting a bit of redundant 
information out of the human user can help catch mistakes), it is 
there for the reader.

I often get lost when there's several levels of whitespace change 
at once.

def pain:
   if whatever:
     do this
     if this_too:
       also do this
       if one_more:
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
         oh snap this is kinda long
         it takes several lines
     quick where we at?



Curly braces in there would show we intended to go a couple 
levels and give a convenient place to click to ask our editor 
program to show us where it started too. I really like having 
that.


Semicolons similarly are a nice way to say "I'm done with this 
thought", which I'm just used to hitting. When I use languages 
that don't allow them, I waste quite a bit of time hitting 
backspace after automatically hitting ;!

Moreover, with a longer line, (or in some cases like debug lines 
where I want to easily remove two statements with one keypress - 
yes, my editor can delete a line instantly, but two lines are a 
bit harder to do) the semicolon gives you the freedom to format 
it as you will.


a = 5 +
     4 -
     1;

That'd work without the semicolon (usually), but this is 
different:

a =   5
     + 4
     - 1;


In that case, the line break after the 5 would probably end the 
statement, leaving the other numbers dangling.

I prefer this formatting in many cases though since then the 
operators nicely line up. In the first one, the 4 is visually 
tied to the -, but really, the - is more strongly related to the 
1, so I want them grouped together.


Well, I'm late, but to sum up:

* familiarity brings comfort, to look and in using existing 
workflows like my editor's delete-line feature.

* breaking habits, regardless of whether those habits are perfect 
in a perfect world, is a source of mental friction that has 
higher cost than benefit

* punctuation separate from styling leaves both as independent 
decisions that brings more beauty

It isn't so much that they are necessary, it is that they bring 
various other benefits.


> I'm a social scientist and I'm preparing some studies on
> the effects of programming language syntax on learning,
> motivation to pursue programming, as well as any 
> disproportionate effects that PL syntax has on the appeal
> of programming to women (more on the latter in a separate
> post).

fascinating, I might tell you some stories from my youth later, 
but right now, I'm too old to be up this late!

But I'm really curious what the gendered aspect turns out as. I 
suspect the effect, if it indeed exists, would be strongly tied 
to the oft-repeated lie that "girls aren't good at math" - math 
famously uses a lot of symbols, so that association could recall 
discouraging memories.