Which language futures make D overcompicated?

[John Gabriele]

On Saturday, 10 February 2018 at 12:44:14 UTC, rjframe wrote:
> On Fri, 09 Feb 2018 22:36:19 +0000, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>
>> Frankly, I think it is doomed to be a niche-use language.  
>> While many more things were done right compared to C++, too 
>> many things were done wrong and there doesn't seem to be 
>> interest in breaking backward compatibility to excise them 
>> from D.
>
> Yes.
>
> If the current "let's get C++ programmers to like us" stuff 
> continues, some of these problems will have to be fixed. I'm 
> expecting C++20 to be a nice language for new projects, where 
> you can ignore a lot of the blech (though not quite enough of 
> it), and moving to C++20 will be easier than moving to D. The 
> ROI just won't be there for most people (for many, it doesn't 
> seem to be there today...).

I also agree. One of the prime benefits of a language with a 
smaller community is that you can make it _better_ *faster*, 
breaking backcompat more easily and more often, and getting a 
better language in the process. After all, if its users wanted 
something slow to evolve, they'd be using one of the 
industry-accepted behemoths.

> I'm not sure that being a niche language is a bad thing; if we 
> just say, "this is D; if you like it come and use it, come help 
> make it better, but if it doesn't help you -- that's OK. There 
> are other languages too" -- we may have more freedom to explore 
> what D can do best. I've done compile- time stuff in D I would 
> never have even considered attempting with C++ - and I haven't 
> done nearly as much as others here. I don't think we've really 
> explored the fullness of the language yet, and I wonder if 
> that's only going to be possible if we quit comparing ourselves 
> so much to C++.

I don't think D is designed to be a niche language. It's a 
general purpose language, open source with multiple 
implementations, solid engineering, and even has good-looking 
syntax. It's not niche at all, it just doesn't have hoards of 
users. D is well-positioned to be hugely popular, but I think to 
succeed its leadership needs to be willing to fix things they 
want to fix and not worry about breaking backcompat.