D as a college language

[KingJoffrey]

On Saturday, 5 May 2018 at 11:25:45 UTC, Russel Winder wrote:
> On Sat, 2018-05-05 at 03:02 +0000, KingJoffrey via 
> Digitalmars-d wrote: […]
>> 
>
>> Students should learn C first, Java second. Not one or the 
>> other, both!
>
> What is the pedegogy here, what are the justifications.

That the languages being taught to undergrads, must be pervasive.

That the languages being taught to undergrads, must teach them 
about low-level types, and higher-level types.

And a whole lot of other stuff..(e.g, open source, cross 
platform, have multiple compilers, standardised, formalised, 
etc..) ..I can't be bothered typing any more ...


> In UK we have Scratch then Python then ??? This is working 
> tremendously well to get large numbers of young people 
> programming far better than most professional programmers.
>

Don't teach undergrads how to play with toys!

They can play with toys in junior high school, sure.


>> Then, perhaps, they will begin to understand the basics of 
>> computer programming - from both extremes.
>
> C and Java are not extremes. Lisp, assembly language, Haskell, 
> Erlang, these are extremes.

C and Java, in comparison to each other, are at the end of each 
extreme.

Those other languages you mention are mostly irrelevant (at least 
on a grand scale), and certainly non-pervasisve. They have no 
place in undergrad course.


>> D could be a postgrad interest perhaps.
>
> No, this would be a bad idea.We can debate this elsewhere.

That should depend on the interests of the postgrad.

At some point, we really, really should let them choose to focus 
on what interests them.

>
>> And what's earning an income got to do with anything? It's a 
>> stupid concept that humans have imposed on themselves, and 
>> it's the primary cause of all things that are wrong with 
>> society. The sooner we move to universal incomes, the better 
>> grauate programmers we'll get, cause they'll be studying it 
>> because it actually interests them, as opposed to being 
>> motived by its' 'earning' capacity.
>
> There being jobs using a programming language may not be a 
> primary driver, but it is a secondary driver. University 
> courses not using Java, Go, and JavaScript somewhere in the 
> curriculum theses days get shunned by students. OK so all 
> programming is clearly Web programming and nothing else is 
> needed. :-)
>

you forgot 'mobile'.



> So let me provide something actually constructive:
>
> Given that the world will move inexorably to using Python for 
> teaching young people programming the trick is to have a Python 
> → D learning programme with lots of support. Teaching support 
> is everything in this aspect of the game.
>

Python should be banned! Cut of it's head!!



> Teach the teachers that D is the route from Python to native 
> code programming and thence C, C++, Fortran, etc, and you have 
> an angle. Having an angle that appeals to the teachers is the 
> first step in getting students to be taught a programming 
> language.
>
> Java proved this.

As someone intimately involved with a university for many, many 
years, I have to wonder whether teachers are the problem, rather 
than the solution ;-)