shared - i need it to be useful

[Stanislav Blinov]

On Friday, 19 October 2018 at 02:20:22 UTC, Manu wrote:

> I've given use cases constantly, about taking object ownership, 
> promotions, and distribution for periods (think parallel for),

Manu, you haven't shown *any* code in which conversion from 
mutable to shared, an *implicit* one at that, was even present, 
let alone useful. While at the same time blatantly dismissing 
*all* examples to the contrary as "bad code" or any other reason, 
especially the "you just don't understand". How do you expect us 
to understand if all you do is talk about how it's useful, but 
don't explain why?
You can talk and brag all you want, but until you do show at 
least one example, I'm sorry but you have no case. And what's 
this all about? A *small*, localized portion of your proposal, 
that isn't event the source of the problems you're talking about 
in the current state of affairs.
In all examples flying about in this thread, all of *required* 
casts were *the opposite*, from shared to mutable, and you 
yourself acknowledge that those are indeed required on the lowest 
level.
As I've said numerous times, from all that's been said and 
implied in this thread, the *only* use of implicit casting that 
comes to mind is avoiding writing some forwarding methods, that's 
about it. I honestly can't see how this is valuable to warrant 
such a drastic change in the language. Now maybe it's that I'm 
dumb, then just say so already and we'll all move on. Just don't 
act like you're the only one who knows it all and everyone else 
is an unwashed pleb clinging to worshiping the faces in the trees.

> I can achieve all my goals with full @safety, absolutely no 
> casts in user code, and I have infrastructure in production 
> that applies these patterns successfully. It's worth pursuing.

Okay... Then please do show *one* example of useful implicit 
conversion from mutable to shared.

> I've spent years thinking on this, I'm trying to move the 
> needle on this issue for the first time in over a decade at 
> least,

And you're behaving in this thread as if everyone else, myself 
included, were sitting on our thumbs counting flies for this same 
decade.

> and you have violently opposed, in principle, from the very 
> first post, and make no effort to actually understand the 
> proposition.

I haven't done such a thing. I have asked you, numerous times, 
one, and only one question, and you never so much as replied to 
*that question*. What is the big value of this implicit 
conversion that it would warrant changing current language rules 
regarding type conversions?

> It's clearly a contest from your insurance that my proposal in 
> worthless in every single post you've made. You want me to 
> admit defeat and desist.

And here you are, continuing to presume. Now you suddenly know 
what I want. Marvelous.

I *don't* want you to admit any defeat, *or* desist. I *want* you 
to succeed. I *want* to help make `shared` useful so that I and 
everyone else can actually start writing code with it, not in 
spite of it. I've agreed with you on pretty much everything in 
your proposal, *except one thing*. I want you to demonstrate the 
practical value of *that thing*, and it's benefits over the 
current state of affairs, and I asked you several times to 
explain to us mere unwashed mortals exactly how it's useful. What 
have we been doing for 17 pages? Discussing the benefits of 
disabling reads/writes on shared? No. Estimating how much 
existing code could go to trash, what parts of DRuntime/Phobos 
would need a rewrite? No. We were in constant back-and-forth of 
"But... nope... but... nope" about this implicit conversion, 
which you value so much yet for some reason fail to defend. 
Saying "I had good time with it" is not a very practical defense, 
not for a language construct anyway.

> Fuck you. You win. I don't have the time or energy to argue 
> against a wall.

If you ask to destroy, be prepared for a fight. Or don't ask. 
Just stop appealing to your own authority.

> You are obscene, you're complete unproductive, and destructive 
> from no apparent reason.

Give it all you've got, please. Let it all out all at once.

> I hope you continue to love shared, just the way it is... 
> useless.

Yet another presumption. Good on you.