D Language Foundation Weekly Planning Session Update

[ag0aep6g]

On 15.05.23 08:24, Ali Çehreli wrote:
> On 5/14/23 22:49, ag0aep6g wrote:
> 
>  > Why is it impossible for you to explain IVY in a forum post?
> 
> Do you remember how many sessions it took for Mike and others to 
> understand how IVY could help?

It might have taken them long to understand how IVY helps, but Mike also 
said that it's "simple". So the basics should fit into a forum post, no? 
Just give us the core idea, or an outline of the program, something. If 
we don't see immediately how it helps, there can be follow up.

>  > Why does it
>  > need one-to-one chats to do that?
> 
> I don't know. Some human things are just like that.

Nonsense. You might not be able to teach me to dance over e-mail, but 
you can give me an idea of what dancing is.

Suppose we are in a one-on-one chat about IVY, what would be the first 
thing you say to me? By refusing to elaborate in a meaningful way you 
guys are just making it seem super weird. As I said, you're not making 
me excited for it, you're making me suspicious of it.

>  > I'm told my friends
>  > can't come with,
> 
> There is something wrong here.
> 
>  > Am I being
>  > recruited into a cult?
> 
> That exact joke was made... by me! :)

So you see where I'm coming from. Except you then got an answer that 
satisfied you, I presume. I didn't.

>  > I would love to read about IVY. Here. I am not interested in personal
>  > chats with you.
> 
> Somehow that sounds hurtful.

Yeah, I'm not exactly trying to hide my resentment towards you guys. I 
don't have anything against you in particular, Ali, but since you've 
come to interject here you might feel some of my negative emotions 
coming in your general direction.

[...]
>  > motivate me to push D to
>  > excellence?
> 
> Erm? Isn't this all about exactly that? And you want it as you insist on 
> trying to kill excitement?

I get that Mike is trying to spark excitement. I don't think the IVY 
posts are doing a good job at that. I'm telling you it has the opposite 
effect on me.

Mike: "Be excited about IVY!"
Others: "Yay! IVY! Woo!"
Other others: "What is IVY? Kinda sounds like hot air."
Mike: "It's not hot air. It's great!"
Me: "You didn't answer the question there. Still sounds like hot air to me."
You: "Don't be such a buzzkill."

Maybe I'm just a grinch trying to steal your IVY Christmas. But I don't 
believe that being excitable about nothing is a desirable trait for a 
programmer. You should not be selecting for that.

>  > For this contributor here, IVY has achieved one thing so far: It put
>  > another brick in the wall between D's leadership and me.
> 
> I don't think it was IVY that did that.

Oh, but it did. The wall already had a good number of bricks, of course. 
But the IVY hype attempt and the poor reaction to negative feedback is 
adding one more.

>  > Meanwhile, the bug I mentioned in that post is still open.
>  >
>  > If you want to use Agile, or Waterfall, or IVY, or whatever, go ahead.
>  > But it better help get bugs fixed. Otherwise, it's a waste of time.
> 
> Time can be wasted in multitude of ways.

I guess that's supposed to mean that I'm wasting time. And I guess 
that's true in a way. I should probably just walk away from D. But 
calling out Mike's non-answers felt right and still does. I regret 
nothing! :P