refined sugar (was DMD 0.165 release)

[Georg Wrede]

kris wrote:
> Walter Bright wrote:
> 
>> I was going to call this 1.0 RC1, but I just could not resist adding 
>> the lazy expression evaluation. This adds one of the big capabilities 
>> of common lisp.
>>
>> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/changelog.html
> 
> 
> 
> We could already do "lazy expression eval" in D, using dmd164 delegates; 
> sans new sugar. So that Lisp ability was already present?
> 
> I like a bit of sugar as much as anyone, especially when it's part of 
> some classy dark-chocolate. But there's some practical issues with this 
> most recent syntactic sugar. The overload issue is a real one, and the 
> added complexity of having to manually check a callee declaration before 
> you can grok what happens to an expression arg will also become a 
> realisitic problem. Particularly so when you happen to miss a method 
> overload in some subclass somewhere.
> 
> In this specific case, I suspect there needs to be an indication of some 
> kind, at the call site, to clearly and unambiguously communicate to a 
> person (and to the compiler) exactly what is going on. Otherwise, this 
> may be just the kind of sugar that rots the teeth of D ?

I just came on-and-off home from the "mill" (the one about using D as a 
factory automation language), and my e-mail client suggested only 
downloading some 50 latest unread messages (instead of the 380 in this 
NG alone). So I haven't read much else than this message and the Change 
Log. Yet.

A first thought:

While it remains to be seen whether the new (Lisplike stuff & co.) 
things are genuinely a leap forward, I must say that from a marketing 
perspective they are -- well, plain Killers!

Imagine Walter having a talk, and the audience is composed of Ultra 
Gurus. Now, insinuating Lisp like properties of syntax, and presenting 
them with examples like those on the Lazy... page -- makes every guru 
want to comment (but hey: the comment is not to actually comment, rather 
to give the impression to others that "I've understood some of this, 
see, see!"). Which of course puts the onus on the others to run home and 
do some serious homework so that they can throw robust opinions later 
on. Which of course unaivoidably leads to those gurus learning D on the 
side, which of course is a Good Thing(tm), especially considering that 
_we_ know that D is contagious: taste it, and you're hooked for life!

Funny, maybe. But I'm not actually downplaying the new syntax, or its 
being Lisp like.

I do see Kris's worries, and I'm nervous too. But I keep my fingers 
crossed, which is all I can do 'till we have some hard facts and 
real-world experience to chew on.

And I really want to hold on to my first impression, which was "this is 
so cool it turns my stomach".  (!!)