OT: Flash and Javascript (Was: Taunting)

Nick Sabalausky a at a.a
Fri May 29 12:53:19 PDT 2009


"Alexander Pánek" <alexander.panek at brainsware.org> wrote in message 
news:gvob5q$pgo$1 at digitalmars.com...
> Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>> "Alexander P?nek" <alexander.panek at brainsware.org> wrote in message 
>> news:gvm3qh$1ld9$1 at digitalmars.com...
>>> grauzone wrote:
>>>> Alexander P?nek wrote:
>>>>> grauzone wrote:
>>>>>> Alexander P?nek wrote:
>>>>>>> Look mah, JS and Flash combined in shiny modal windows:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/05/27/modal-windows-in-modern-web-design/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I really don't want to torture you. Well, maybe a little. :P
>>>>>> Oh god... why...
>>>>> *snip*
>>>>>
>>>>> "The modal window has many advantages. For example, when a modal 
>>>>> window contains a smaller element, the user doesn't need to load an 
>>>>> entirely new page just to access it (another way to achieve the same 
>>>>> effect is e.g. by using AJAX-based tabs). By providing modal windows, 
>>>>> you improve the usability of your website. Having to load pages over 
>>>>> and over will annoy most users, so avoiding that is definitely a good 
>>>>> thing. Modal windows also allow you to save space by getting rid of 
>>>>> large elements that don't need to be on the main page. For example, 
>>>>> rather than putting a full video on a page, you can just provide a 
>>>>> link, thumbnail or button of some sort."
>>>> Yeah, I read that. I want to smash him to pieces.
>>> Why? I don't get it. Why is there so much hate and anger about it in the 
>>> air? Srsly, this whole topic is just completely overrated. It's just the 
>>> internet. ffs man.
>>
>> Because they're like pop-up windows, except they actually manage to be 
>> worse. Unlike traditional pop-ups, which are already bad enough:
>> - They're modal
>
> Modal windows are modal, yes. That is certainly true.
>

You're completely missing my point. Modality is a bad thing and should only 
be used when absolutely necessary. Look at the uses on that page. None of 
them are anything that have any reason for rendering the underlying page 
inaccessible and partially obscured. If it had been done in a real pop-up 
(which obviously would still be bad), it would at least have the benefit of 
not blocking the underlying page.

>> - They aren't blocked by pop-up blocking software
>
> Because they are not pop-ups. They don't open a seperate native window on 
> your desktop or tab in your browser. They're contained. No need to block 
> that.
>

That's a flawed argument. Flash ads, animating gifs, embedded sounds, and 
blink/marquee tags are all contained in a page. You're not saying that none 
of those should be blockable just because they're contained, are you? 
Obnoxious bullshit needs to be blockable, period. These things are 
incredibly obnoxious. And besides that, yes, of course they are pop-ups. 
They are in-page pop-ups.

>> - They sometimes include completely useless, interface-delaying 
>> animations.
>
> Your point being? Sometimes technologies are used for completely useless 
> crap. True. Does that make every technology bad?
>

As I *just* said in that very same post, my point is that that's one of the 
things that makes them worse than regular popups. Regular popups never do 
that. But these in-page popups do it frequently, and not only that, it's 
even encouraged! Yes, that's most certainly a bad thing. In fact, any 
technology that naturally leads itself to bad design *is* a bad technology 
regardless of whether or not it *can* be kludged into doing something 
properly. See C++.

Oh, also, it breaks the back button. Which is always stupid.

> I understand that all the modal windows used for displaying advertisement 
> are annoying as hell, yes. But that doesn't make modal windows as 
> described in this article in any way bad. Have you actually read anything 
> there? Have you looked at some of the examples?

Yes, of course I've looked at those examples. And they make my skin crawl. 
Every single one of them is something useless that could have been done far 
better without suddenly pretending that modality was somehow a good thing. 
And I have come across them on real websites. And every time I have, I get 
pissed off, turn off JS (see, another example of a bad DHTML ruining it for 
all DHTML) and reload to accomplish whatever it is I was trying to do, and 
then never return to the site.




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