"The End of Native Code"

[David Medlock]

Daniel Keep wrote:

> 
> David Medlock wrote:
> 
>>Daniel Keep wrote:
>>
>>>[snip]
>>>
>>
[snip]
> 
> My apologies if I offended you; I see far too many programmers turn
> their nose up at a language because "eww, it's not native code therefore
> it sucks!" or "eww, it's native code therefore it sucks!".
> 
> Also, if you have been programming in Java for ten years, you have my
> sympathies.  I used it for two sessions at university and I barely got
> out with my sanity intact ;) [1]
> 
> As for MS-specific stuff, you can avoid that entirely and go with Mono.
>  That gets you compilers and a runtime.  You don't even need C# if you
> want to play with Nemerle.  You can just use Nemerle, Boo
> (Python-inspired but statically typed with type inference) or IronPython
> (full Python implementation for .NET).
> 
> MS-specific libraries aren't much of a problem.  I believe Mono now
> supports much of System.Windows.Forms (just don't call any Win32 APIs),
> but failing that you can use GTK# (which has Windows installers), and
> you can always use OpenGL+OpenAL instead of DirectX.
> 
> And finally, Java needs a runtime, too.  Actually, considering that the
> latest ATI video card drivers *require* .NET [2], I'd say a fair few
> Windows users would have it by now.
> 
> 	-- Daniel
> 
> [1] Case in point: our lecturer was trying to teach us how to program
> using Objects since C++ isn't object oriented and we were all clearly
> unbelievers.  How does he teach us?  He takes hello world.  Good old six
> line hello world.  He spends fifteen minutes "object orienting" it.  It
> ends up something like 60-70 lines across three files.
> 
> "This is java.  It is good."
> 
> I think I heard someone sobbing at that point... or it might have been me...
> 
> [2] For the record, I think this is ridiculous.  Installing the new ATI
> drivers is ~35MB.  That's without the .NET runtime.
> 

No apologies necessary, I was just clearing up confusion.  I did not 
intend to sound offended(but I can see that I did).

Although Java feeds my wife and kids, I have no great love for it.  I 
have more fun with Groovy(a JVM scripting language) honestly.

Its not great but it is 'good enough'(tm).

I can even stomach VB in small doses, but the only truely painful 
programming I have ever done is Perl.  This is a language full of 
special cases and inconsistencies like no other.  It has embedded type 
information which serves no real benefit, but is touted by Perl hackers 
as a useful feature!  Unfortunately I have been moved in my company to a 
dept which is run by Perl guys...I'm doomed.

Java does need a runtime, but I have done web server side stuff mostly, 
with some doses of large data mining thrown in(NIO libraries arent too bad).

Python and D are the most enjoyable programming I've done.

Cheers.
-DavidM