Unofficial wish list status.(Jul 2008)

[superdan]

Bill Baxter Wrote:

> Don wrote:
> > Sean Kelly wrote:
> >>> so wut is that stuff u want in d. u haven't even tried d2 so it loox 
> >>> like u r interested more in bitchin' than in making real
> >> suggestions. now seriously. speak up. what is it that u as a member of 
> >> the community wanna say and walter doesn't
> >> listen.
> >>
> >> I've tried D2.  I've read the spec as well.  I simply don't like it.  
> > 
> > By D2, I imagine you just mean "the const system"?
> > (Most of the other things in D2 seem to have been very popular; if D2- 
> > without-const was released, I reckon most of the community would start 
> > using it).
> > 
> > It seems to me that the view of the community is "We though we wanted 
> > const. But now that we've seen what const involves, we don't want it.".
> > 
> 
> I think there was a lot of hope on the part of the community that a 
> const system designed from scratch with 20/20 hind-sight could avoid 
> some of the practical problems with the C++ const system.  But it seems 
> the answer to that was "no".  The system we've got now seems to solve 
> some *theoretical* problems with the C++ const system at the cost of 
> making practical usage slightly more cumbersome.
> 
> But I don't hope for a more usable const any more.  I'd just like to see 
> a reduction in the number of flavors of D code.  If we all moved to D2, 
> I think we could pretty much just ignore invariant until it actually has 
> some practical benefit.  What's left of D2 const is pretty much like 
> what many are used to with C++.  Yeh, so you have to write some methods 
> multiple times for different constnesses, etc... you get used to it.  I 
> think I could get used to D2 const anyway.

good point. i'm thinkin' it is useful today actually for the sakes of string alone. string is a blessed godsend. without string sure as fuck there's no hope to write ten fucking lines of scripting code or 100 lines of serious code 4 that matter. d1 strings are fucked. and the more app grows the more fucked they are coz nobody in hell knows who aliased them just to fuck with them later.

>  > At the very least, it's a public relations disaster from the point of
>  > view of the language designers. They are assuming that with more time
>  > and education, the legitimate complaints about first const system will
>  > be forgotten, and the const system will be embraced by the community.
>  > But there is a very big risk here -- what if it is NOT eventually
>  > accepted? What if the community concensus remains that const is just too
>  > complicated, without enough benefit? And the language designers remain
>  > steadfastly devoted to const? That's a catastrophic scenario, and
>  > unfortunately not unlikely.
>  >
>  > The fact that someone as senior in the community as yourself is
>  > expressing profound dissatisfaction indicates that the risk is very real.
> 
> It would be sad to see the D2 const swerve shake off all the old D 
> supporters off the D train.  But on the other hand, new folks do seem to 
> keep popping up who would rather use D2 than D1.

i lurked here on & off 4 quite a while since the d1 days (who the fuck made me unlurk? shit) but i used d2 as soon as it appeared. but then i use os betas and shit. d1 is cute but due for retirement. nobody will switch 2 d1 from 1other real language. there's just not enough shit in d1 to compel. but d2 really fucks all other language's girlfriends. has tons of amazing shit already and is ready 2 bag threads. now when that happens every1 will want to use d2 or copy it.