On C/C++ undefined behaviours (there is no "Eclipse")

[Bruno Medeiros]

On 05/10/2010 18:59, retard wrote:
> Tue, 05 Oct 2010 15:49:59 +0100, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
>
>> On 02/10/2010 15:13, retard wrote:
>>> Fri, 01 Oct 2010 14:53:04 +0100, Bruno Medeiros wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 20/08/2010 22:37, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
>>>>> "retard"<re at tard.com.invalid>    wrote in message
>>>>> news:i4mrss$cam$1 at digitalmars.com...
>>>>>> Fri, 20 Aug 2010 19:04:41 +0200, Andrej Mitrovic wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What are these Java programs for the desktop that run fast? I
>>>>>>> haven't encountered any, but maybe that's just because I didn't try
>>>>>>> them all out. Eclipse takes at least 20 seconds to load on startup
>>>>>>> on my quad core, that's not very fast. On the other hand,
>>>>>>> CodeBlocks which is coded in C++ and has  a few dozen plugins
>>>>>>> installed runs in an instant.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now that's a fair comparison! "Crysis runs so slowly but a hello
>>>>>> world written in Go is SO fast. This must prove that Go is much
>>>>>> faster than C+ +!"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think CodeBlocks is one of the most lightweight IDEs out there.
>>>>>> Does it even have full semantic autocompletion? Eclipse, on the
>>>>>> other hand, comes with almost everything you can imagine. If you
>>>>>> turn off the syntax check, Eclipse works just as fast as any native
>>>>>> application on a modern desktop.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've tried eclipse with the fancy stuff off, and it's still slower
>>>>> than C::B or PN2 for me.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> All these comments about Eclipse takes this time to load, or Eclipse
>>>> is slow when used, etc., are really meaningless unless you tell us
>>>> something about what actual plugins and features are installed and
>>>> used.
>>>>
>>>> Unlike CodeBlocks which is "a free C++ IDE", Eclipse proper is the
>>>> Eclipse Platform, which is a platform (duh) and doesn't do anything
>>>> useful by itself. Particularly since there is not even a
>>>> standard/single "Eclipse" download: http://www.eclipse.org/downloads/
>>>> , unlike Codeblocks. The days were JDT would be the main thing 95% of
>>>> Eclipse users would use are long gone.
>>>>
>>>> So are you using JDT, CDT, Descent, something else? If JDT, do you
>>>> have extra tools, like the J2EE Web Tools? (these add massive bloat)
>>>> What about source control plugins, or plugins not provided by the
>>>> Eclipse Foundation, etc? All of these are a wildcard that can affect
>>>> performance. For example, I definitely note that sometimes my
>>>> workspace chokes when I do certain SVN or file related operations
>>>> (with Subclipse btw, not Subversive).
>>>> I also noted, when Eclipse 3.6 came out, some sluggishness when
>>>> working with JDT, even when just typing code (in this case it was very
>>>> subtle, almost imperceptible, but I still felt it and it was quite
>>>> annoying). I suspected not JDT, but Mylyn, so I uninstalled it, and
>>>> now things are back to normal. (there might be a fix or workaround for
>>>> that issue in Mylyn, but since I don't use it, I didn't bother)
>>>>
>>>> I would definitely be quite annoying if Eclipse was not responsive for
>>>> the vast majority of coding tasks.
>>>>
>>>> As for startup time, I hardly care anything about that :
>>>> http://www.digitalmars.com/d/archives/digitalmars/D/
>>>
> Re_Eclipse_startup_time_Was_questions_on_PhanTango_merger_was_Merging_Tangobos_into_Tango_60160.html#N60346
>>>> (except when I'm doing PDE development, but that's a different thing)
>>>
>>> Back then the unhappy user was using a 1 GHz Pentium M notebook. I
>>> tried this again. Guess what, the latest Eclipse Helios (3.6.1) took
>>> 3.5 (!!!) seconds to start up the whole Java workspace, open few
>>> projects and fully initialize the editors etc for the most active
>>> project. Has the original complainer ever used Photoshop, CorelDraw,
>>> AutoCad, Maya/3DSMax, Maple/ MathCad/Mathematica, or some other Real
>>> World Programs (tm)? These are all fucking slow. That's how it is: If
>>> you need to get the job done, you must use slow programs.
>>>
>>>
>> I'm sure that the people who downright refuse to use Eclipse because it
>> loads too slow use some other program for media development. Maybe its
>> MS Paint (or a Linux equivalent) because it loads so fast! Or maybe its
>> a vi/emacs plugin for image manipulation or 3D modelling. ;)
>
> Well Don mentioned that he had used ALL of those programs and since no
> complaints about the slow loading times of those programs were mentioned,
> I assume all of them (the latest versions, of course) start in less than
> 3.5 seconds. I pondered this a bit and am now willing to buy Don's magic
> computer. I really do have need for a laptop that can launch those
> applications in less than 3.5 seconds.

Note: I wasn't talking about Don. Even though he mentioned those startup 
issues, I don't think Don is a person who "downright refuse[s] to use 
Eclipse because it loads too slow".
One thing is complaining, the other thing is actually deciding not to 
use, and yes, there are some people in the later camp, people who don't 
want to use an IDE if it doesn't load in less than X seconds (where X is 
between 1-5 seconds).

-- 
Bruno Medeiros - Software Engineer