[OT] Previously: DMD - Windows -> C# in gamedev

[Paulo Pinto]

Thanks for the explanation.

I am convinced that eventually AAA game engines can be
made in a GC enabled language like D, they just need to
be coded in a different way, more GC-friendly.

But this is just a wish about progress, and I don't have
any real industry experience to say it will really happen.

Thanks again for the feedback,
Paulo

Am 07.01.2012 15:34, schrieb Manu:
> On 7 January 2012 15:24, Paulo Pinto <pjmlp at progtools.org
> <mailto:pjmlp at progtools.org>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Manu,
>
>     nice to hear about your experience with C#.
>
>     I am a bit of half-insider in the game industry, being
>     a IGDA member for some years and also attended two
>     GDCE so far.
>
>     Several reasons have kept me from getting a job in the
>     industry, but I still follow what's happening quite closely.
>
>      >From what I know here in Europe, many studios have been slowly
>     migrating to C# for tools, and many that target mostly Windows
>     are also experimenting with it in their engines.
>
>     How does it look like from your side?
>
>     I think this is important to know, because in what concerns
>     game development, C# might eventually superseed C++, especially
>     with good quality AOT compilers. Not sure how good Mono's AOT
>     code quality is. From the public information C# is the default
>     language for the PlayStation VITA and the PlayStation Suite.
>
>     And game development is probably one of the few areas where D could get
>     an entry to.
>
>
> Most gamedev studios are VS-centric, and from that reason alone, C# is
> the obvious choice if you want to remove your tools from C++/MFC/whatever.
> In my experience, most first time C# coders have a great experience off
> the bat, and tend to keep on that wagon.
> I think it started like this; some coder decides he hates writing tools
> in C++. They click new->project-> oh look, C#, everyone's talking about
> it. They give it a go (...see my previous post).
>
> I don't know if you're on the mark saying studios that 'target mostly
> windows' are migrating engines to C#. Actually, I've never heard of an
> instance of that outside indy-games.
> The most interesting trend I think is the Unity effect. They embed mono
> into their engine (ie, NON-windows machines), and all high level game
> code is written in C#.
> This seems an amazingly sensible idea, and most people seem to agree. I
> love the idea of Unity, and on small games, handhelds and stuff, it
> seems to work really well.
>
> I don't realisticslly see C# 'taking over' gamedev. It's too closely
> affiliated with Microsoft, although I am very surprised by Sony's move,
> so maybe I'm way off the mark.
> Also, for AAA mainstream titles, I don't think there's any choice other
> than C++. Game engines are aggressively tuned at very low level to the
> hardware. I don't think any non-C++-like systems language can take that
> away (D may have a chance here, but the GC might be a problem at the
> engine level).
>
> I think it's likely that the shift more towards mono (or some other
> script-ish language) taking over the high level logic code will continue
> though. Mono just happens to have a great AOT experience, familiar
> IDE's/integration into workflow, and familiarity to most devs now via
> working on tools.
>
> One of the biggest challenges for the gamedev world is adapting
> high-level game code to scalable SMP systems. Engine is easy to make
> scale, game logic, not so much. Strong OOP is the problem here.
> With the current trend of using an auxilliary language to write this
> logic code, there's opportunity for a language that totally nails SMP
> scalability to really make a dent... but it's hard to predict :)
>
> I don't think I can emphasise enough though the point I made in my last
> post where the successful language will likely NOT be the language with
> the best merits towards that end. It will be the one that is most easily
> integrated into developers workflows, and I think this is the key reason
> C# is so popular atm.
>
> All that said, I'm just an engine programmer. I write C++ to the metal.
> I'm not the best authority on the topic :)