OSX users out there? Serious bug (I think)

[Andrei Alexandrescu]

On 4/2/13 4:45 AM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
> 01.04.2013 19:50, Andrei Alexandrescu пишет:
>> On 4/1/13 11:21 AM, Denis Shelomovskij wrote:
>>> 01.04.2013 0:02, monarch_dodra пишет:
>>> Bitch please!
>> [snip]
>>
>> Denis, the above (as well as most of the message that follows) is
>> entirely inappropriate.
>
> Can't agree. I think the complaining is reasonable and it was written as
> an answer to "I found a bug, it's terrible!" to show that the situation
> is much worse a person thought. It is also aimed to help newbies to
> understand the situation if they read NG as it looks like nobody want to
> share this (relevant and valuable) information on main `dlang.org` site
> but instead a newbie can read some words about stability and conclude
> there is no such blocking issues in D. And it looks really like the
> current situation as there are lots of "Can I write for Android in D?"
> but no "Can I write for Windows in D?".

All I'm trying to get out of this is more reason in the discussion, 
which I am glad to see is happening.

>> It's also compounded by your antics on github,
>> where your contributions are marred by a tendency to bully other
>> contributors and to convert most every disagreement into strife. I have
>> repeatedly asked you kindly to correct that behavior to no effect.
>
> [For someone not informed about my disrespectful posts, read my answer
> to Nick]
>
> I have never really answered to this so:
>
> Honestly, I can't even imagine how my malicious silly posts can touch
> anybody except me. If someone see this what does he think? I suppose the
> only case is: "That is an annoying probably stupid person. He does it
> because he has no actual arguments so I will not read further this
> discussion as he is obviously incorrect." But looks like you really feel
> bad because of this so I will stop my stupid mean jokes.

Thank you.

> [WARNING: the following paragraph is solely IMHO and may wrongly blame
> good people, remember while reading it that I'm the one who outrage more
> than constructive participate]

When I write paragraphs that I find fit to start with such warnings, I 
usually end up deleting them - and it's been working great. :o)

> If we are telling about a respect, I have to say some of the main
> developers show far more strong disrespect than me (that's why I feel
> angry sometimes). The disrespect is in ignoring another person's
> arguments making that person feel like "my arguments are too stupid to
> even be arguably rejected". So I also kindly ask the developers to
> correct that behaviour. The correction is easy: in the case someone feel
> "there is misunderstanding" one (or better two) core developers without
> strong opinion on the subject are asked to attach and make unprejudiced
> decision (when they can of course, so the discussion may be frozen for a
> relatively long time which will only help everybody to rethink his
> opinion). In the case their opinion is like the first core developer
> opinion the person who is against it have to stop arguing. Probably that
> person may have an ability to add new arguments and ask the developers
> to rethink their opinion, but only after a few months.

I can't talk about the respect bestowed by (or the general thoughts of) 
an amorphous entity of volunteers such as the main dmd contributors or 
the github committers etc., but I can talk on my own behalf.

All I can say is I tried to work with you on a couple of issues and 
found it unduly difficult and time-intensive, so I decided to invest 
what little time I had in other pursuits more likely to be productive, 
while leaving it to others to volunteer reviewing and pulling your code. 
The one thing I won't tolerate is abuse and bullying of other community 
members.

I'd also opine that if respect is the angle of interest to you (I'd 
argue it shouldn't, but that's a longer discussion), this is a 
collaborative project by volunteers self-ranked by merit, so respect 
can't be asked for, but definitely can be earned. So improving the real 
value added by contributions - both in code and in review interactions - 
should definitely improve things.

>> Remember, nobody's holding a gun to your head; the door is always open
>> for entering as well as leaving. It is entirely understandable if you
>> find D unfit for whatever you do, or if its development process is not
>> to your satisfaction. But this ongoing attitude of playing the victim,
>> interpreting the team's shortcomings as incompetence doubled by malice,
>> and picking fights left and right, is not helping you or anybody.
>
> I'm not playing the victim. I'm here long enough to see and understand D
> shortcomings. If I discovered something unexpected and have troubles it
> is my own fault.
>
> I'm worrying about newbies who can start using the language as there is
> no warning on the main site about some shortcomings everybody have to be
> informed about. Damn, `std.stdio.File` is positioned as an official and
> working thing to read/write files (it is even on the main page) what can
> I add?

You definitely can add the File-related bugzilla numbers that prevent 
you from getting work done. (Allow me to add some meta-text here - the 
above paragraph's rhetoric is exactly what I'm talking about that 
doesn't help. If the focus is adding value, then mentioning the exact 
issues would definitely be better than sarcastic hyperbole.)

> I'm also worrying about D image in the case a count of D users will grow
> exponentially and (I hope it will never happen but) D will drown in hate
> posts of frustrated users who wasn't informed about thinks they expected
> to be informed about.
>
>> I compel you again to revise your attitude toward the people you work
>> and interact with in the forum and on github. If that does not happen, I
>> will propose to the core team that your github account is banned from
>> our project. Sorry it had to come to this.
>
> [Again, for someone not informed about my disrespectful posts, read my
> answer to Nick]
>
> Of course, feel free to do it. No sarcasm here, I like D and just can't
> be against of pushing out somebody who cause troubles to developers.

Understood. BTW there was no threat slinging there; I just wanted to be 
fair to you by telling you in advance what the options in front of us 
are. But now that the dialog has become rational and sensible, I hope 
and believe none of that would ever be necessary.


Thanks,

Andrei