Microsoft working on new systems language

[Adam Wilson]

On Sun, 29 Dec 2013 00:45:39 -0800, Paulo Pinto <pjmlp at progtools.org>  
wrote:

> On 29.12.2013 06:59, Adam Wilson wrote:
>> On Sat, 28 Dec 2013 03:13:53 -0800, Barry L. <barry.lapthorn at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone, first post...
>>>
>>> Just saw this:
>>> http://joeduffyblog.com/2013/12/27/csharp-for-systems-programming/
>>>
>>> D (and Rust) get a mention with this quote:  "There are other
>>> candidates early in their lives, too, most notably Rust and D. But
>>> hey, my team works at Microsoft, where there is ample C# talent and
>>> community just an arm’s length away."
>>>
>>
>> I want to make a point here that many people come to do looking for
>> something that is as performant as C++ with the ease of C# or Java, and
>> for the most part (using LDC/GDC) you get exactly that. This language
>> could convince me to go back to C#. Particularly if it's cross-platform.
>> C# is a solid language that is used by a lot of people. And it is
>> supported by a large corporate entity with mountains of money and a
>> vested interest in making it successful. They can kill bugs and make
>> improvements at a phenomenal pace (look at the job they did with C#
>> 1.0->2.0).
>>
>> This needs to be a wake up call for the D community. For a long time D
>> has occupied the Programmer Efficient and Safe Native Compiled Language
>> niche more or less unchallenged in any serious way (with a nod to Rust).
>> If Microsoft actually goes through with this (and they will since the
>> .NET runtime is murderous on mobile device battery performance) the
>> argument for D will get much harder to make. Yes we can argue the
>> ideology of one technical bullet point versus another, but that misses
>> the point. The vast majority of programmers pick their languages based
>> not on ideological purity, but on ability to get stuff done quickly.
>> Obviously this is more than just the language, it's also the
>> availability of tutorials and examples. But there isn't much we can do
>> about that at this point. And there is a LOT of things that C# can do
>> that D cannot. Cross-library namespace composability is big on my
>> personal list. Or proper shared libraries. Or, etc.
>>
>> I know that I wanted out of the Microsoft world for performance and
>> cross-platform reasons. However with this project, especially the
>> interest in cross-platforming it that they seem to be showing, they will
>> have a much easier time getting me back. After all I came from to D from
>> C#, it wouldn't be hard to go back.
>>
>> So while we're celebrating that D mentioned in an article that made the
>> front-page of reddit (by virtue of it's author being well-respected and
>> the importance of his employer) let us also reflect on what this news
>> most likely means for D. Microsoft can invalidate us almost overnight
>> with mountains money and the size of their community. Yes we got an
>> honorable mention, that also means we're on the radars of people who
>> matter...
>>
>
>
> Well, this is nothing new I would say. Microsoft Research already has  
> been using C# for systems programming in the context of the Singularity
> project (Sing#). They just didn't brought the result of their work into  
> mainstream Windows, except for the MDIL compiler used in WP8.
>
> Now with the native political side gaining strength after the Vista  
> fiasco, it is to be expected something like this, if the wind doesn't  
> change again.
>
> A future native C# compiler was also mentioned at VS 2013 release  
> keynote.
>
> --
> Paulo

Indeed. However, the difference is that, they're going public with it. I  
mean it's all well and good that they've built native C# compilers before  
... but now they're going to let the little people play with one. I've  
followed native C# compilers since Spec# in Singularity 1. There has never  
been a real competitor to D that anybody outside of MSR could actually do  
anything with. That's really my whole point. But it's an important one.  
Now we have another option for a Safe, Efficient, Native language that you  
don't have to be a masochist to use. And it's going to evolve much faster  
than D...

-- 
Adam Wilson
IRC: LightBender
Project Coordinator
The Horizon Project
http://www.thehorizonproject.org/