Had another 48hr game jam this weekend...

[Manu]

On 17 September 2013 23:46, Bruno Medeiros <brunodomedeiros+dng at gmail.com>wrote:

> On 17/09/2013 07:24, Manu wrote:
>
>>
>>         I closed about half my open tabs after my last email (~50 left
>>         open). Down
>>         to 93mb. You must all use some heavy plugins or something.
>>         My current solution has 10 projects, one is an entire game
>>         engine with over
>>         500 source files, hundreds of thousands of LOC. Intellisense
>>         info for all
>>         of it... dunno what to tell you.
>>         Eclipse uses more than 4 times that much memory idling with no
>>         project open
>>         at all...
>>
>>
>>     4 times ? You must have a pretty light instance of eclipse !
>>
>>
>> It's a fairly fresh eclipse install, and I just boot it up. It showed
>> the home screen, no project loaded. It was doing absolutely nothing and
>> well into 400mb.
>> When I do use it for android and appengine, it more or less works well
>> enough, but the UI feels like it's held together with stickytape and
>> glue, and it's pretty sluggish. Debugging (native code) is slow and
>> clunky. How can I take that software seriously?
>> I probably waste significant portion of my life hovering and waiting for
>> eclipse to render the pop-up variable inspection windows. That shit
>> needs to be instant, no excuse. It's just showing a value from ram.
>> Then I press a key, it doesn't take ages for the letter to appear on the
>> screen...
>>
>
> Android and Appengine?
> There are two flaws in that comparison, the first is that apparently you
> are comparing an Eclipse installation with a lot more tools than your VS
> installation (which I'm guessing has only C++ tools, perhaps some VCS tools
> too?). No wonder the footprint is bigger. For example, my Eclipse instance
> with only DDT and Git installed, and opened on a workspace with D projects
> takes up 130Mb:
> http://i.imgur.com/VmKzrRU.png


My VS installation has VisualD, VCS tools, xbox 360, ps3, android,
emsscripten, nacl, clang and gcc tools. (I don't think these offer any
significant resource burden though, they're not really active processes)
If Eclipse has a lot more tools as you say, then it's a problem is that I
never selected them, and apparently they hog resources even when not being
used. That seems like a serious engineering fail if that's the case.
As far as I know, I don't have DDT and git installed, so you're 2 up on me
:) .. I only have android beyond default install (and no project was open).
No appengine in this installation.

With the recommend JVM memory settings (see http://code.google.com/p/ddt/**
> wiki/UserGuide#Eclipse_basics<http://code.google.com/p/ddt/wiki/UserGuide#Eclipse_basics>), the usage in that startup scenario goes up to 180Mb.
> But even so that is not a fair comparison, the second flaw here is that
> Eclipse is running on a VM, and is not actually using all the memory that
> is taken from the OS.
>

It's perfectly fair. Let's assume for a second that I couldn't care less
that it runs in a VM (I couldn't), all you're really saying is that VM's
are effectively a waste of memory and performance, and that doesn't redeem
Eclipse in any way.
You're really just suggesting that Eclipse may be inherently inefficient
because it's lynched by it's VM. So there's no salvation for it? :)

If you wanna see how much memory the Java application itself is using for
> its data structures, you have to use a tool like jconsole (included in the
> JDK) to check out JVM stats. For example, in the DDT scenario above, after
> startup the whole of Eclipse is just using just 40Mb for the Java heap:
> http://i.imgur.com/yCPtS52.png


I don't care how much memory the app is 'really' using beneath it's
overhead. All I care about is how much memory it's using (actually, I don't
really care about that at all, I only care about how it performs, which is
poorly), and the windows task manager surely offers the most fair measure
for comparison available to the OS, at least for the memory consumption
metric ;) .. The problem remains that I find eclipse significantly less
responsive, and the UI is messy and disorganised. I feel a lack of
coherency between different parts of Eclipse.
So in summary, I prefer and use VS whenever I have the option.

I had some experience with kdevelop this past weekend trying to find a
reasonable working environment on linux. It's fairly nice. Certainly come
along since I last tried to take it seriously a year or 2 back.
It would be nice if there was D support though. It has rudimentary support
that some whipped up, but it could do a lot better.

Can any linux MonoDevelop user enlighten me on how to use MonoDevelop4 on
linux? I couldn't find a package for it anywhere... only MD3. It seems
linux MD is way behind... no idea why.
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