Had another 48hr game jam this weekend...

[John Colvin]

On Tuesday, 17 September 2013 at 14:20:03 UTC, Manu wrote:
> On 17 September 2013 23:46, Bruno Medeiros 
> <brunodomedeiros+dng at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> On 17/09/2013 07:24, Manu wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>         I closed about half my open tabs after my last email 
>>> (~50 left
>>>         open). Down
>>>         to 93mb. You must all use some heavy plugins or 
>>> something.
>>>         My current solution has 10 projects, one is an entire 
>>> game
>>>         engine with over
>>>         500 source files, hundreds of thousands of LOC. 
>>> Intellisense
>>>         info for all
>>>         of it... dunno what to tell you.
>>>         Eclipse uses more than 4 times that much memory 
>>> idling with no
>>>         project open
>>>         at all...
>>>
>>>
>>>     4 times ? You must have a pretty light instance of 
>>> eclipse !
>>>
>>>
>>> It's a fairly fresh eclipse install, and I just boot it up. 
>>> It showed
>>> the home screen, no project loaded. It was doing absolutely 
>>> nothing and
>>> well into 400mb.
>>> When I do use it for android and appengine, it more or less 
>>> works well
>>> enough, but the UI feels like it's held together with 
>>> stickytape and
>>> glue, and it's pretty sluggish. Debugging (native code) is 
>>> slow and
>>> clunky. How can I take that software seriously?
>>> I probably waste significant portion of my life hovering and 
>>> waiting for
>>> eclipse to render the pop-up variable inspection windows. 
>>> That shit
>>> needs to be instant, no excuse. It's just showing a value 
>>> from ram.
>>> Then I press a key, it doesn't take ages for the letter to 
>>> appear on the
>>> screen...
>>>
>>
>> Android and Appengine?
>> There are two flaws in that comparison, the first is that 
>> apparently you
>> are comparing an Eclipse installation with a lot more tools 
>> than your VS
>> installation (which I'm guessing has only C++ tools, perhaps 
>> some VCS tools
>> too?). No wonder the footprint is bigger. For example, my 
>> Eclipse instance
>> with only DDT and Git installed, and opened on a workspace 
>> with D projects
>> takes up 130Mb:
>> http://i.imgur.com/VmKzrRU.png
>
>
> My VS installation has VisualD, VCS tools, xbox 360, ps3, 
> android,
> emsscripten, nacl, clang and gcc tools. (I don't think these 
> offer any
> significant resource burden though, they're not really active 
> processes)
> If Eclipse has a lot more tools as you say, then it's a problem 
> is that I
> never selected them, and apparently they hog resources even 
> when not being
> used. That seems like a serious engineering fail if that's the 
> case.
> As far as I know, I don't have DDT and git installed, so you're 
> 2 up on me
> :) .. I only have android beyond default install (and no 
> project was open).
> No appengine in this installation.
>
> With the recommend JVM memory settings (see 
> http://code.google.com/p/ddt/**
>> wiki/UserGuide#Eclipse_basics<http://code.google.com/p/ddt/wiki/UserGuide#Eclipse_basics>), 
>> the usage in that startup scenario goes up to 180Mb.
>> But even so that is not a fair comparison, the second flaw 
>> here is that
>> Eclipse is running on a VM, and is not actually using all the 
>> memory that
>> is taken from the OS.
>>
>
> It's perfectly fair. Let's assume for a second that I couldn't 
> care less
> that it runs in a VM (I couldn't), all you're really saying is 
> that VM's
> are effectively a waste of memory and performance, and that 
> doesn't redeem
> Eclipse in any way.
> You're really just suggesting that Eclipse may be inherently 
> inefficient
> because it's lynched by it's VM. So there's no salvation for 
> it? :)
>
> If you wanna see how much memory the Java application itself is 
> using for
>> its data structures, you have to use a tool like jconsole 
>> (included in the
>> JDK) to check out JVM stats. For example, in the DDT scenario 
>> above, after
>> startup the whole of Eclipse is just using just 40Mb for the 
>> Java heap:
>> http://i.imgur.com/yCPtS52.png
>
>
> I don't care how much memory the app is 'really' using beneath 
> it's
> overhead. All I care about is how much memory it's using 
> (actually, I don't
> really care about that at all, I only care about how it 
> performs, which is
> poorly), and the windows task manager surely offers the most 
> fair measure
> for comparison available to the OS, at least for the memory 
> consumption
> metric ;) .. The problem remains that I find eclipse 
> significantly less
> responsive, and the UI is messy and disorganised. I feel a lack 
> of
> coherency between different parts of Eclipse.
> So in summary, I prefer and use VS whenever I have the option.
>
> I had some experience with kdevelop this past weekend trying to 
> find a
> reasonable working environment on linux. It's fairly nice. 
> Certainly come
> along since I last tried to take it seriously a year or 2 back.
> It would be nice if there was D support though. It has 
> rudimentary support
> that some whipped up, but it could do a lot better.
>
> Can any linux MonoDevelop user enlighten me on how to use 
> MonoDevelop4 on
> linux? I couldn't find a package for it anywhere... only MD3. 
> It seems
> linux MD is way behind... no idea why.

If you're on some sort of ubuntu variant: 
https://launchpad.net/~keks9n/+archive/monodevelop-latest