cross post hn: (Rust) _ _ without GC

[ketmar via Digitalmars-d]

On Tue, 23 Dec 2014 19:12:10 +0000
Vic via Digitalmars-d <digitalmars-d at puremagic.com> wrote:

> 1)I quote me: "How much $ funding so I consider it?"
>   here in D form- http://tinyurl.com/ks7z9jy
you didn't get it. it's not about "where can i put my money", it's
about "ok, so i hiring programmers to do what i want and publishing it
as FOSS". if you see that forking D for making what you want is
necessary -- fork it! if your doings is superior to what we have now,
people will either migrate to your fork, or will integrate it into
mainling somehow. if not... well, you still have what you wanted to
have, so no loss here. ah, except that you will not have that "for
free."

just siting and asking "tell me how much money you want so i can think
about it" is obviously not working.

> 2) http://www.meetup.com/D-Lang-Sillicon-Valley
> This is us hosting and operating it, I hope people join 30 
> members so far for the first meet up in Jan.
it's good... for those who lives in SV, i believe. but for me, for
example, this means nothing, even if you will start throwing cash onto
people on this meetings: i can't attend. yet making contribution in the
form of source code is immediately useable for everyone.

i'm not saying that meetings are of no meaning, of course. but this is
very... local support. ;-)

> 3) I pay salaries for 6 full time D users, who use D.
this is irrelevant. are you paying 'em just for "playing with D"? nope,
you are paying them to do the work for you. it's like saying that i'm
supporting java 'cause we are paying salaries for some java coders.

i.e. this is good for those guys, but... what FOSS library they wrote?
can i try it? they doing in-house developement, so i glad that they
found such interesting work, but i can't see my benefits here.

> So I hope you do care about D, and hence we have to work together.
> I have a suggestion that one can have lots of features w/ stable 
> core, both.
i do care, that's why i'm so agressively opposing. i believe that
tearing D apart will do nothing good for majority of D users. and
making GC second-class citizen is like removing hands from Venus de
Mile: she's still looking great, but 'cmon, she can't even eat or dress
without help!

> Adding features will not work, that is a fact that some don't see.
what i see is the exact opposite. adding features works excellently,
but feature adding rate is very slow. there are some Kenji PRs that
rotting for years, some for unknown reason and some just 'cause "we
must think about that first". this, by the way, demonstrates that
inexistent features will remain inexistent for a long time (two years
for tuple PR, for example, and no signs of life).

i understand that Walter and Andrei have to think alot before making
such radical and "path-closing" changes, and i'm not blaming them. but
this demonstrates that "second-class" features will be in such state
for years: there is not enough manpower, and "second-class" features
can wait. infinitely.

yet adding half-backed feature (`alias this`, for example, which was
supposed to support multiple `alias this`) continuously annoys people,
so eventually somebody just jumping in and finishing the damn thing. ;-)

> Moving them is painful, no question about that.
> Current situation is we are stuck, ex:
> " Anyone want to review these and see what we should add to
>   Phobos?" from 
good question. but it's too late to redefine Phobos. yet someone can
start the project... ah, "Deimos" was already used, isn't it? let's
call it "hell on Phobos" then. ;-) which will rethink current Phobos.
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