D could catch this wave: web assembly

Joakim via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d at puremagic.com
Thu Jun 18 21:18:58 PDT 2015


On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 21:15:35 UTC, Wyatt wrote:
> On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 19:23:26 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 18:30:24 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course this is exactly true and it drives me mad too, but 
>>> you can't just jettison it in favour of a better architecture.
>>
>> Why not?  This is exactly what _should_ be done.
>>
> Same reason you can't just stick your head in the sand and 
> pretend the entire existing body of C and C++ code doesn't 
> exist.
>  It sucks, but them's the breaks.

The difference is that "existing body of C and C++ code" actually 
does something and works.  The existing web stuff is just GUI 
markup, that as Bray notes never quite works, so it can easily be 
ditched.  It is _already_ being ditched, for native mobile UIs.  
I know of major shopping websites in developing markets that have 
shut down their mobile websites in favor of their mobile apps.  
It's just too much of a pain to keep the web frontend going.

>> I think the reason these efforts have failed so far is because 
>> NaCl was still stuck using the existing web stack for the GUI,
>
> NaCl failed because it required a plugin, and did so in a way 
> that made it exclusive to one browser vendor.  It's like Java 
> only worse.  Or that thrice-be-damned Flash.

No, NaCl has been built into Chrome, one of the major browsers, 
for a while.  I believe it could be used to secure plugins, but 
did not require you to install one.  At least, I've certainly 
used it without receiving a plugin prompt.  And Java and Flash 
were ubiquitous at one point in their histories.

>> But if you're just going to avoid the old web stack altogether 
>> and try to deploy your canvas/WebGL/assembly native app 
>> everywhere using the web browser as a trojan horse, presumably 
>> just to get through security or evade sysadmins more easily, 
>> you have to question what the point of making it a "web app" 
>> even is.
>>
> The point is it runs in a browser.  Do you need a more 
> compelling feature than the ability to run unchanged anywhere 
> there's a browser (basically everywhere)?  I mean, I too think

Think about that.  Once you're writing your app in WebGL/webasm, 
what are you really gaining over just making it a mobile app for 
iOS/Android, both of which support OpenGL/asm? ;)

> most of this "web technology" is trash and really wish the 
> lingua fraca of the Internet wasn't awful--  I would love for 
> text to be foremost and for progressive enhancement to fall 
> back to a normal web site when I visit with elinks.

Those days are gone.  The dynamic model of HTML5, where pages are 
not even the organizing principle anymore, means they need to 
rethink the entire model.  But I see no evidence that anybody is 
doing so, simply piling more stuff on top.

> But realistically? This is a damn sight better than any of the 
> other attempts so far because it's just a new feature in the JS 
> VM.  If it means we can lower code in a proper language to 
> something a browser can run at something resembling the speed 
> of an ordinary scripting language, it'll be a win already.

I agree that if webasm finally delivers on the promise of NaCl, 
which I said I was hopeful for, it will be a worthwhile 
improvement.  If it means you can avoid writing javascript 
entirely and get decent performance, it is definitely a big win.

>> And this new stuff isn't integrated, I believe canvas doesn't 
>> even support hyperlinks.  How is that not broken already?
>>
> Look, I don't fundamentally disagree that this all sucks but 
> dude, chill.  Here, go play some Oregon Trail: 
> https://archive.org/details/msdos_Oregon_Trail_The_1990 ;)

Nah, time to break it.

>> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/paths.html
>>
> SVG has animation, input handling, and an audio API(!) and you 
> take issue with paths?  Weeeeeak. :P

No, I take issue with the text format, especially XML.  That was 
a horrible idea, regardless of how many good features they built 
in.


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