D could catch this wave: web assembly
Joakim via Digitalmars-d
digitalmars-d at puremagic.com
Thu Jun 18 21:18:58 PDT 2015
On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 21:15:35 UTC, Wyatt wrote:
> On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 19:23:26 UTC, Joakim wrote:
>> On Thursday, 18 June 2015 at 18:30:24 UTC, Abdulhaq wrote:
>>>
>>> Of course this is exactly true and it drives me mad too, but
>>> you can't just jettison it in favour of a better architecture.
>>
>> Why not? This is exactly what _should_ be done.
>>
> Same reason you can't just stick your head in the sand and
> pretend the entire existing body of C and C++ code doesn't
> exist.
> It sucks, but them's the breaks.
The difference is that "existing body of C and C++ code" actually
does something and works. The existing web stuff is just GUI
markup, that as Bray notes never quite works, so it can easily be
ditched. It is _already_ being ditched, for native mobile UIs.
I know of major shopping websites in developing markets that have
shut down their mobile websites in favor of their mobile apps.
It's just too much of a pain to keep the web frontend going.
>> I think the reason these efforts have failed so far is because
>> NaCl was still stuck using the existing web stack for the GUI,
>
> NaCl failed because it required a plugin, and did so in a way
> that made it exclusive to one browser vendor. It's like Java
> only worse. Or that thrice-be-damned Flash.
No, NaCl has been built into Chrome, one of the major browsers,
for a while. I believe it could be used to secure plugins, but
did not require you to install one. At least, I've certainly
used it without receiving a plugin prompt. And Java and Flash
were ubiquitous at one point in their histories.
>> But if you're just going to avoid the old web stack altogether
>> and try to deploy your canvas/WebGL/assembly native app
>> everywhere using the web browser as a trojan horse, presumably
>> just to get through security or evade sysadmins more easily,
>> you have to question what the point of making it a "web app"
>> even is.
>>
> The point is it runs in a browser. Do you need a more
> compelling feature than the ability to run unchanged anywhere
> there's a browser (basically everywhere)? I mean, I too think
Think about that. Once you're writing your app in WebGL/webasm,
what are you really gaining over just making it a mobile app for
iOS/Android, both of which support OpenGL/asm? ;)
> most of this "web technology" is trash and really wish the
> lingua fraca of the Internet wasn't awful-- I would love for
> text to be foremost and for progressive enhancement to fall
> back to a normal web site when I visit with elinks.
Those days are gone. The dynamic model of HTML5, where pages are
not even the organizing principle anymore, means they need to
rethink the entire model. But I see no evidence that anybody is
doing so, simply piling more stuff on top.
> But realistically? This is a damn sight better than any of the
> other attempts so far because it's just a new feature in the JS
> VM. If it means we can lower code in a proper language to
> something a browser can run at something resembling the speed
> of an ordinary scripting language, it'll be a win already.
I agree that if webasm finally delivers on the promise of NaCl,
which I said I was hopeful for, it will be a worthwhile
improvement. If it means you can avoid writing javascript
entirely and get decent performance, it is definitely a big win.
>> And this new stuff isn't integrated, I believe canvas doesn't
>> even support hyperlinks. How is that not broken already?
>>
> Look, I don't fundamentally disagree that this all sucks but
> dude, chill. Here, go play some Oregon Trail:
> https://archive.org/details/msdos_Oregon_Trail_The_1990 ;)
Nah, time to break it.
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/paths.html
>>
> SVG has animation, input handling, and an audio API(!) and you
> take issue with paths? Weeeeeak. :P
No, I take issue with the text format, especially XML. That was
a horrible idea, regardless of how many good features they built
in.
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