Project Elvis

[bauss]

On Friday, 10 November 2017 at 23:14:50 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Friday, 10 November 2017 at 11:19:39 UTC, Satoshi wrote:
>>
>> You are judging C#, but looks where is D and where is C#.
>
> Where is C#?
>

In about 50% of the corporations doing enterprise programming.

> - good luck porting it to other (non MS, non .NET environments).

.NET Core is getting there.

> - performance of large code bases can often be sluggish

What's your proof of this? I have worked with multiple large code 
bases written in .NET without bad performance?

> - VS.NET does most of the coding for you.

Uh, what? Because of JIT? Okay. Then "D" does most of the coding 
for you too then, since you're not writing the assembly code nor 
are you manually linking your object files.

> - most C# developers have no idea what's being done behind the 
> scenes.

To me, it seems like you have no idea what's being done behind 
the scenes.

> - you can't create a function outside of a class (great design 
> decision btw!)
>

Different language, different design choice, different goals.

It's not like every decision in D are the best either.

Every language has their flaws.

> I could go on..and on...
>

Yeah, but I'd rather if you didn't.

> It's had good sides and bad sides.
>
> MSFT fanboys are unable to distinguish the difference, and 
> think everything must be great, cause MSFT/C# did it.
>

I'm not even a "MSFT" fanboy. I replaced all my private .NET code 
with D, but not because I despise .NET at all, but because D is 
my preferred language of choice.

There are certain areas of .NET that D could learn a lot from.

> MSFT have spent the last 7 years mostly adding useless stuff to 
> C# - but like their design descions about Windows, and their 
> other products. Instead of real innovation, we just get more 
> useless stuff.

Different people, different opinions.

>
> These forums need more critical thinking, and better 
> justification for new features (other than 'cause MSFT knows 
> best'), or ('cause the language I'm used to using has it').

If I got a dollar for every time you said "MSFT", I'd be able to 
buy Microsoft.

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On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 02:52:47 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 01:37:01 UTC, 12345swordy 
> wrote:
>> best'), or ('cause the language I'm used to using has it').
>> You should take your own advice first, when you insult other 
>> people by calling them "Microsoft fanboys". Take your snark 
>> somewhere else.
>
> Any opinion/idea offered by someone who can't take criticism of 
> MSFT products, is not worth very much to me. As far as I'm 
> concerned, it demonstrates a closed mind, incapable of 
> exploring alternative solutions. It invites suspicion.
>

Opinions without facts are pretty useless.

Something you should be familiar with.

> Now...if you're not actually a 'MSFT fanboy', then i dare you 
> to post a link that criticises the C# langauge, or any other 
> MSFT product.

Why would anyone waste their time finding that? It's such a petty 
thing.

It's like saying:

"If you're not a fan of Justin Bieber, I dare you to find an 
article that dislikes him."

I thought we were more professional on these forums, but I guess 
kindergarten is all around the internet.

-------------------------

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 03:49:24 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 01:37:01 UTC, 12345swordy 
> wrote:
>> You should take your own advice first, when you insult other 
>> people by calling them "Microsoft fanboys". Take your snark 
>> somewhere else.
>
> and btw. if you had gone back a few threads (instead of just 
> jumping into a conversation to just have a go at me), then 
> you'd know that it all started because i attempted to inject 
> some humour into the converstation, and used a youtube video 
> that made fun of the design of Windows 10 - in a humerous 
> manner.
>

Hahahah so funny....... no.

> What results from that, was some guy telling me that I was 
> bashing on Adam. That i was anti this and anti that.
>
> Then others got involved too, trying to bash on me even further.
>

Nobody is "bashing" anyone.

> So, if you're all willing to dish it out to me, you better be 
> prepared to take some too!
>

Such a mature thing to do.

> D's future will depend not on how well it ties into a 
> propriatory o/s, but who well it runs in open source 
> environments. Anyone who doesn't see that, doesn't understand 
> whats going on in the world of software development. Even MSFT 
> get that, and are now trying to port C# as quickly as possibly 
> to other platforms to hold off the competition that's already 
> here, and more to come.
>

And your source of information is?

> I think D is where it is, because it was developed on Windows 
> (windows 32 bit it seems). Had it been developed on an open 
> source operating system, I expect it would be miles ahead of 
> where it currently is.
>

I'm not even sure what you're referring to in terms of D's 
issues. Especially when you mention that you think it was 
developed on Windows. Isn't it strange Windows the OS left out 
mostly by D then?

What you say doesn't match up with any facts around here.

In fact the only OS that is currently troublesome with D is iOS 
as far as I'm aware.

> If D is making Windows its platform priority, then it has to 
> compete with exiting MSFT solutions on the platform, which in 
> my mind, are far superior to anyting D can or will be able to 
> provide. D should focus its attention elsewhere.
>

It's not about winning a competition.

------------------

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 04:55:15 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Friday, 10 November 2017 at 05:23:53 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote:
>> MSFT spends a LOT of time studying these things. It would be 
>> wise to learn for free from the money they spent.
>
> This is valid MSFT code, I believe:
>
> A?.B?.C?[0] ?? E
> A?.B?.C?[0] == E
>
> I have been coding on and off, since 1992, in various languages.
>
> So can you please tell what this code means?
>
> Can you please tell me what it was that MSFT learnt (and spent 
> money to do so), so as to enable coders to write such code?

Every operator in every language can be abused.

Every language has good and bad programmers.

In fact without the null-conditional operator the code would look 
even worse.

Ex. D equivalent:

A ? A.B ? A.B.C ? A.B.C[0] : E : E : E

(A ? A.B ? A.B.C ? A.B.C[0] : null : null : null) == E

--------------------------------

On Saturday, 11 November 2017 at 05:20:39 UTC, codephantom wrote:
> On Friday, 10 November 2017 at 05:23:53 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote:
>> MSFT spends a LOT of time studying these things. It would be 
>> wise to learn for free from the money they spent.
>
> I just saw this about the new 'damnit' operator, for C# 8.
>
> https://github.com/dotnet/csharplang/issues/556
>
> I thought it was a joke at first, but they are serious.
>
> C# seem to becoming language of operators.
>
> ool? a, b;
> ...
> var x = !a! != b! ? a! : !b!;
>
> Yeah...lets follow there example...they seem to know better.

It's a proposal, not an actually accepted implementation.

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I'm tired so I will end my post here.